Chris Wolski, Director of Business Intelligence of Clinical Lab Products, is joined by Jen MacCormack, 15+ year Medical Lab Scientist and Technical Writer for COLA, to discuss the role of laboratorians as health communicators. Chris and Jen provide positive and productive advice on tackling some common pain points that laboratorians feel amidst current conditions of misinformation or uncertainty.

1) What are some of the most common questions laboratorians can expect to get from their family and friends?

2) How do you answer those questions, particularly in a way that will empower those loved ones?

3) How can you help identify good information from bad information that you may see online?

4) What are some best practices laboratorians should practice when communicating with friends, family, and acquaintances about diagnostic testing and medical information in general?

Read Podcast Transcript

Chris Wolski:
Welcome to Clinical Lab Chat, part of the MEDQOR Podcast Network. I’m Chris Wolski, Director of Business Intelligence for CLP, and today I’ll be speaking with Jennifer MacCormack about the role of laboratorians as health communicators.

Chris Wolski:
Jennifer has more than 15 years of experience as a medical laboratory scientist working in hospital core laboratories and transfusion services in both the US and Canada. She also worked in development and manufacturing of blood typing anti-sera prior to joining COLA Inc in 2016 as a technical advisor. And she’s currently COLA’s technical writer, developing webinars, technical bulletins, and educational materials as well as articles for external publication. Her work has been featured in several industry publications and science communication blogs and we’re hoping to have her write some things for CLP in the near future. So, welcome Jen. And I don’t think that there’s really any secret… we talked about this before we began recording this podcast.

Chris Wolski:
I don’t think there’s really any secret that there’s a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about medical testing and healthcare in general today. It just seems rampant. And I think we could do an entire series of programs on just untangling some really egregious examples of that. So, while that could be helpful to talk about how these egregious examples, I wanted to speak to you today a bit more about the positive. And how do laboratorians help their friends, family, and acquaintances to avoid going down that rabbit hole of misinformation and misunderstanding? And maybe even more to the point, why should they even have that role? So, what are some of the most common questions laboratorians can expect from their family and friends? Maybe some of the ones you’ve had, your background as a laboratorian and as communicators. So, what are some of the questions that you get day to day from family and friends and acquaintances?

Jen MacCormack:
Well, the questions have definitely increased since COVID has hit just because there’s a lot more talk about the laboratory out there. And a lot more people are just getting themselves tested. Normally when you think about testing, you go to your doctor’s office and they order a test and you go get your blood drawn and you get your results. But now people are sort of having to decide for themselves, “When should I go get tested? I’ve got a party coming up, I’m going to my friend’s wedding,” or something. “When should I take a test and what kind of test?” Or, “I’ve been in the office all week. I just found out the secretary has COVID and now I need to go get tested. How long do I wait?”

Jen MacCormack:
So, people are sort of not clear necessarily on what the quote on quote rules are for getting the tests. And then there’s also a lot of, “Why are my test results taking so long to get back?” And that’s kind of something that everyone has experienced. I mean, especially when the surges hit and the labs get kind of strapped, people want to know why things take so long. And one of the other big questions is about the tests themselves. Have you gone to get any COVID tests yourself?

Chris Wolski:
I have. I have. I haven, indeed.

Jen MacCormack:
And when they did the swabbing, was it just a little Q-tip in your nose or was it the really long swab that went all the way back?

Chris Wolski:
No. Thankfully it was just the more friendly one at the front of my nose.

Jen MacCormack:
Oh, good. Good. But the different ones are out there, right? I’m sure you’ve heard of some friends who’ve gotten the really long swab. I know some schools are doing spit tests. Saliva testing or swabbing the mouth because it’s a little easier, especially for children than trying to… I have kids. Trust me getting a swab up their nose is really something.

Chris Wolski:
Yeah. Probably a lot of plaque.

Jen MacCormack:
So, people are wondering, well, “Why are they different? They’re all the same test, so why is everything so different?” So, people are really sort of curious about the how and why and the turnaround time of these tests. And so they come to me because they know I’m the lab person. So, they ask me.

Chris Wolski:
Right. Well, and we talked a little bit about… In our prep call a couple weeks ago, we talked a little bit about now there’s misinformation. We talked about some of the kinds of… Certainly, there’s the positive, “How does this work?” But people are coming to you asking you things about, “Well, can I…” I think one of the examples you gave me was, “Okay. So, this has a swab that I need to use in my nose. Can I also use the spit as well just to get some extra… to really cover my basis?” Are you getting those kinds of questions as well? Just trying to untangle some of the misinformation in terms of how to even just… particularly for the home test, because those are more popular now. Just how to use those properly. We’re going to get to a minute about what you need to tell people and answer those questions, but are you getting those kinds of questions too, that are just really built on some misinformation about how to use some of these tests?

Jen MacCormack:
Definitely. I mean, I also get questions about some of the treatments and stuff, which is outside of the scope of my expertise obviously, but I’m sure anyone who has an internet connection and who has any kind of social media presence. I mean, there is a lot out there about COVID. So much so that Facebook has little warnings saying, “Careful. This is COVID information. Double check it whenever someone posts about about COVID.” So, people very recently there was sort of a wave on Twitter people saying anecdotally that Omicron was better detected in saliva. And so people were saying, “Make sure you swab your throat too because you might get a false negative with just your nose.” But specifically about that one, I tell people to just read the package insert. That’s instructing you what to do.

Jen MacCormack:
If it doesn’t say swab your throat, don’t swab your throat. I mean, you’re not putting toothpaste in your nose and you’re not drinking Coke with your nose. And anything you put in your mouth and your saliva can affect the test. So yeah, if it hasn’t been approved for an oral swab, please don’t do it. It’s not going to be an accurate test. So, read the manual basically is what I tell people.

Chris Wolski:
Exactly. So, that brings me onto… Okay. So, we talked about some of the questions, but I think the answers… I think really, particularly these days I just read an article about this just prior to coming on to doing this recording about how to really be straightforward and empathetic at the same time and not be dismissive. Being just dismissive of someone unless they’re completely telling you to drink bleach I guess or I don’t know. I can’t even think of something on the testing side that I’ve heard that makes my blood go cold, but how do you answer those questions particularly in a way that will empower those friends, families and loved ones, particularly if you’ve got that question six times in the last four days. So, how would you recommend, both a laboratorian and as a communicator, how would you recommend answering some of those question that would empower people? Not just say, “Don’t be dumb. This is how to do it. This is how to be smart about this. This is how to take control of your health and the testing.”

Jen MacCormack:
Right. I mean, I figure if someone is approaching me with a question, it’s an honest question. They’re not coming with a, “Got you.” They want to know more about the process and sort of take control of their own health because it has kind of been put in their hands to make these decisions on what test to ask for and when to get it and all this sort of thing. And they’re scared to make the wrong choice to protect their families. And that’s really everyone has the same priority, is to keep yourself and your family safe from COVID. And if I can help them understand the way the tests work, then maybe I can help them make smarter choices.

Jen MacCormack:
Mainly I try to take the mentality of teaching them to fish. So, I mean, yes, I do have some answers, but even I, myself, I rely on good sources when someone comes to me with a question. Even if it’s a question that I’ve heard before, like with the testing windows for example. The CDC website is really good with information for the public. The FDA has a list of tests that are approved for home use and use at the doctor’s office. But things, especially at the beginning were changing so fast. I mean the information coming out about COVID, the testing windows, what sort of new tests were hitting the market and being approved. It was all so fast. So, I would always rely on those websites, just double check before I’d give anybody any answers.

Jen MacCormack:
And I’d also send links to my family and say, “If you want some more information about testing windows, of when after an exposure you might want to get a test. Or if you want some information about what a PCR is compared to what a rapid antigen is…” Because these are not words that the average person is familiar with and suddenly they’re everywhere. So, there are some websites that can help them with that. And another one that I use a lot is… I’m near Baltimore, so I use the Johns Hopkins website. They’ve got a ton of really great COVID information [crosstalk 00:10:35].

Chris Wolski:
Great website.

Jen MacCormack:
So, I share those a lot because honestly, if people know where to go for the good information, it’s not that they’ll bother me less, but it’s that they’ll start to be able to take charge of learning for themselves from good sources.

Chris Wolski:
Yeah. And that I think really is the crucial point. We talked a lot about this in our pre-interview chat a couple weeks ago. How can you help people… And I think this might be the most important way to help empower people. And you kind of touched on this, I think in a really good way, how do you help to empower people to identify good information for the bad information? Because as we discussed in our previous conversation, there’s a lot of bad information out there.

Chris Wolski:
And sadly, there is some bad information out there from people who should maybe know better or who have the veneer of expertise. And so how do you help people identify, “Okay. It’s not just being on a trusted website, but it’s also knowing when the information you’re looking at is like wait a minute, this sounds a little fishy. This sounds a little fishy here.” Helping them to educate themselves in a way that’s rational. That’s really reality scientifically based as opposed to just relying on going to an expert website. I think also being able to identify when you something crosses your desk or crosses your feed, that’s seems a little iffy. How would you recommend laboratorians do that?

Jen MacCormack:
Well, I mean, it’s tricky, right? Because as you mentioned, there’s a lot of people on social medias. You’ve got Facebook and TikTok and Twitter and anybody can really just go on an account and look official and say anything. The credentials that a person claims may not necessarily be correct, depending on who they are. There are people who go out to misinform and there’s others who mean well and just don’t quite have it right. Who are putting information out there. And the average person is not equipped to do a deep dive in everybody’s credentials, right? You’re not going to do a background check on everybody that you’re looking at on social media. But there’s some things that can sort of clue you in that things are not quite right. If the person never really points you back to any clinical studies or anything to back up what they’re saying, then you sort of have to have a question about that.

Jen MacCormack:
Also if somebody’s expertise is in a completely different area and they’re discussing COVID for example, I would sort of pause a little bit. For example, I would probably trust an epidemiologist a lot more than an economist on something to do with COVID. So that’s not to say there aren’t some very smart economists out there who know a lot, but if you’re trying to find the best information out there, you want to find the experts who are best trained in that. Which is also why honestly I would love to have more med techs, clinical laboratory scientists out there doing science communication. I wish there were more of us more publicly doing it. And there are some. There are some. It’s that people don’t necessarily understand what we do and that we are a resource. Part of that is because of the shortage of med techs honestly, but at least that’s come into the news a little bit recently which is good for the profession.

Chris Wolski:
For sure. For sure. Well, I think you touched on an interesting point. More laboratorians and med techs should be doing this. Pathologists should be getting out there and talking about not just COVID tests, but tests in general. I’m going to lay out a question and this may be a big one. Maybe it’s too big to answer right now. Why bother? I mean, why should it be on someone who is doing very important work, helping people identify whether or not they’re sick, whether it’s COVID or cancer or any host of other diseases. Why should they bother taking the time out of their busy schedule to talk to friends, family, et cetera, lecture, write letters to the editor? What should motivate them to do this?

Jen MacCormack:
Well, I mean, you’re right. The lab profession is very stretched thin and that’s everywhere from bench techs up to the pathologists running the labs. Everyone is burnt out. Healthcare is kind of in a crunch. So, you’re right. It’s hard to find the time. But I think… At least personally for me, part of my reason for wanting to make sure that I get out there and make myself visible as a clinical lab scientist is not many people know about us. So, it is a very invisible profession and we’re also in a crisis where there are more people due to be retiring soon from this profession and people leaving too. With COVID, people are just burnt out. And there’s not enough people being trained to come in and replace the people who are leaving. So, it’s going to get worse.

Jen MacCormack:
And if people don’t know the profession exists, how would they know to go to school for it? And to go and learn for it? So, I try whenever I’m talking to anybody… I mean, we said at the beginning one of the questions was why does it take so long to get my test results back? And that’s because it takes people with really specialized training to run the test. It’s not the easiest thing to run. And if we can make this profession more visible to people, they may be interested in actually joining us and doing good from the lab bench and choosing this as a profession. COLA actually has a scholarship program. It’s one of the ways that we are hoping to help get more people into the lab profession. It’s the Give Back 365 program and we give away scholarships to med tech students.

Chris Wolski:
Oh, that’s terrific.

Jen MacCormack:
Yeah. I’m glad it’s helping a lot of people to pay for their school and keep going. So, my personal reason, I can’t say why everyone else should do it, but I really think that as a hidden profession, we’re often literally in the basement of the health facility with no windows. People don’t know… You get to meet your nurses, you get to meet your respiratory techs. You don’t meet the med tech who’s downstairs in the lab running your CBC and telling the doctor you need a blood transfusion because you’re so low. So, making us more visible I think is really just something we all should be thinking about. We’re really well trained, highly trained professionals with a lot of expertise and a lot of knowledge and we can answer some of these questions. We can do a lot of this.

Chris Wolski:
Right. And have been critical during and particularly in COVID and a lot of other times when we’ve had other outbreaks that… maybe not here, in other parts of the world, but certainly during flu season we certainly don’t think of… We think of our doctors, but we don’t think as you said the laboratorians. So, I like that about just the shining a light on a secret profession I guess. Or a hidden profession. So to that point, to kind of wrap things up here, what would you say are maybe the two or three… let’s call them best practices that laboratorians should adhere to when communicating with friends, family, acquaintances, et cetera, about diagnostic testing and medical information in general? And then just in the bigger scope of things, maybe even beyond COVID, just COVID. I mean, most of the questions will be COVID, but…

Jen MacCormack:
For now, yeah. A lot of COVID.

Chris Wolski:
But I think [inaudible 00:19:08] ahead and they’ll be asking about other things.

Jen MacCormack:
You’re right. They do ask about other things and that’s another place where we kind of have to be careful and know our limits as medical technologists, as clinical lab scientists. We’re smart, we’re knowledgeable, we’ve got a lot of answers, but we’re not physicians. That’s not our realm. That’s not our expertise. So, Uncle Joe comes to you at Thanksgiving and says, “Hey, so here’s my lab results. What does all this mean?” And we can’t do that. We can’t tell them what they mean. We may be able to say, “Oh, A1C, that’s your hemoglobin A1C. That means how well you’ve been taking care of your Type 2 diabetes, uncle.” We can explain bits and pieces and how to read the report and what all those things might mean and what they’re looking for, but you can’t tell them that means you’re doing a good job with your diabetes.

Jen MacCormack:
You have to be careful with stopping at where your expertise stops. And that’s important to make sure that we remember. That we have to refer them back to their doctor for a lot of that. And the corollary too to that is you got to just admit when you don’t know something. Especially with medical stuff and clinical stuff, it can change. Testing changes rapidly. There are so many new tests being developed day to day that you may not necessarily be doing yourself in your laboratory. So, someone coming to you asking about these new PCR tests or these new molecular tests, you have just admit if you don’t know and understand that bringing them to a resource that they can refer to is as helpful as helping them. Because you don’t want to be contributing to the misinformation. You don’t want to take a good guess and swing and miss.

Chris Wolski:
For sure. And that can also help lead to misinformation when you’re just trying to wing it particularly on a health test or any sort of health issue for sure. So, yeah. All right. Well, great. Well, unfortunately we’re out of time, but Jen, I think we covered some really important ground here today. And I want to thank you for your time and all these great insights. And I want to thank our listeners today for listening. Look for more episodes of clinical lab chat in the future and visit us online at clpmag.com. That’s clpmag.com and on all of the major social media platforms. And until next time.

Jen MacCormack:
Thank you for having me.